Nerf Perfect Defence

Prispeval Guest, 19.06.2011 at 06:53

I still don't understand why all people think PD is overpowered. Is it just because you have only 1 unit type to manage? Well, but you still have to think about where to attack and those stuff.

Wrong, that's the point of a defensive strategy: you mainly have to think where to defend.

Range doesn't do anything(it's basically IF now), please make it -1 att to infantry.

The thing is they have a decent attack (and general gives them +1 in an upgrade) and massive defence. Let's leave the defence as it is despite the fact that they get 9 defence in a city for a 60 gold unit (50? with upgrade), because this strategy is about defence. Great Combinator infantry for example, get -3 attack so they can use something else to attack with, tanks.
The problems with PD is that once you get into a city, which is easy since you have max 2 stacks attacking, you're extremely hard to kill even by the most offensive strategies. The minor movement nerf is nothing, it is counterbalanced by the upgrade anyway. I wouldn't nerf the movement, since perfect defence would require to be mobile to defend at crucial cities. Iron pointed out cow's mistake; he has to think where to attack? With Perfect Defence? This is why PD is overpowered, because they can skip defence, capture an important city with a high defence unit and carry the team. Hugo is the best PD player at the moment and he has carried his team twice with PD, and that's versus us alone. I'll rephrase so you can understand: PD, Perfect Defence, carried the team, attacked everyone, was most aggressive and beat everyone else. And that's experience versus us alone. In a team game PD would be a perfect buffer zone for expensive offensive strategies to have time to get some countries and overrun the rest, but since PD requires so little money for a mediocre attack/massive defence unit, therefore it can play both roles, which makes it overpowered.
Now on the defensive part: 9 defence in a city for a 60 gold unit. Tanks cost twice as much and have less attack... GW marines cost the same +20 and have -2 attack. If there's a general in the PD city, it goes to 10 defence. Keep defence as it is, but as the strategy indicates, infantry aren't an attacking unit, therefore an attack nerf is mandatory.That should be in either -2 attack OR keep it as it is but make it cost more, 110 to make it 100 with reduction, still cheaper than offensive units and with the same awesome defence stat.

Prispeval Fruit, 19.06.2011 at 14:23

Range doesn't do anything(it's basically IF now), please make it -1 att to infantry.

Not even close, IF has -3 to range, not -1.

WOW, like range does anything, PD DOESN'T NEED MONEY:


>SPAM AIR TRANSPORTERS
>MISSION ACCOMPLISHED


I like when everyone cried when I abused MoS and you nerfed it:

"In other news, Marines now have the default att: 6 / def: 4. Master Of Stealth increases attack to 7. This makes Marines better in attack, but almost useless in defence - so use them carefully."



But then again they have been nerfed again to 7-3 with the SAME cost.If you nerfed MoS you have to nerf PD.


A good idea could be leave Infant as they were and bump their cost to 1XXish, 120 gold cost should be fine since it would require more thinking and less spamming the fuck outta of produce unit button.(you could like make PD a version of Tank Comander and they having the same price...dunno)

Citiraj:

I don't think a big nerf is needed. Maybe a -1 to movement, perhaps, could reduce its potency in Europe games. I don't know. But it's definitely beatable.

Totally biased opinion.

For starters it isn't about being beatable it's about being balanced.MoS was beatable I know I ABUSED until it got nerfed and became a dead stratregy.

I WILL REPEAT IT AGAIN.IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING BEATABLE BUT BEING BALANCED IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STRATS.

Prispeval Prokwu, 19.06.2011 at 14:56

Citiraj:

I don't think a big nerf is needed. Maybe a -1 to movement, perhaps, could reduce its potency in Europe games. I don't know. But it's definitely beatable.

Totally biased opinion.

For starters it isn't about being beatable it's about being balanced.MoS was beatable I know I ABUSED until it got nerfed and became a dead stratregy.

I WILL REPEAT IT AGAIN.IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING BEATABLE BUT BEING BALANCED IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STRATS.

I hope Ivan wasn't as biased as to who he listened to for that useless nerf.
Check this: http://afterwind.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=1438
MoS is indeed useless against GW, those are the only 2 balance topics and the Beating PD topic by Ironail. Hell even Pinheiro (a mod) changed his mind about MoS and no attention was paid.

And don't let me get started on IF being OVER POWERED like the true god of tanks.

I support attack or cost nerf for PD infantry and returning it's range to normal.

Again, we're focussing on EUROPE, low-starting-income. That's a small map, with not much money to start with: of course a low-cost strategy (PD, GW) will dominate. You're missing the bigger picture of Eurasia/whole world games, and Amok/Ivan can't simply balance strategies around one case scenario.

After my exams, I want to test a few matches against Hugosch with the new -1 nerf to Infantry.


(P.S: IF is essentially (on a small map of course, where nerfed range doesn't come as much into play) every unit x 1.4 (3 HP more, out of a standard 7)

I understand that Amok/Ivan wanted to make premium strategies stronger than normal ones (cash incentive), BUT, I'm slightly annoyed at how GC is noticeably weaker than IF. This isn't due to GC not being strong enough, but rather due to that HP boost. I can't think of a way change that without making the strategy (IF) lose its uniqueness.

Prispeval BASED Ironail, 19.06.2011 at 18:58

Again, we're focussing on EUROPE, low-starting-income. That's a small map, with not much money to start with: of course a low-cost strategy (PD, GW) will dominate. You're missing the bigger picture of Eurasia/whole world games, and Amok/Ivan can't simply balance strategies around one case scenario.

After my exams, I want to test a few matches against Hugosch with the new -1 nerf to Infantry.


(P.S: IF is essentially (on a small map of course, where nerfed range doesn't come as much into play) every unit x 1.4 (3 HP more, out of a standard 7)

I understand that Amok/Ivan wanted to make premium strategies stronger than normal ones (cash incentive), BUT, I'm slightly annoyed at how GC is noticeably weaker than IF. This isn't due to GC not being strong enough, but rather due to that HP boost. I can't think of a way change that without making the strategy (IF) lose its uniqueness.

Nerf range a little more maybe, -1 range extra on it will probably nerf it sufficiently.

EDIT: added quote, as it wasnt clear what i meant

Prispeval BASED Ironail, 19.06.2011 at 18:58

Again, we're focussing on EUROPE, low-starting-income. That's a small map, with not much money to start with: of course a low-cost strategy (PD, GW) will dominate. You're missing the bigger picture of Eurasia/whole world games, and Amok/Ivan can't simply balance strategies around one case scenario.

After my exams, I want to test a few matches against Hugosch with the new -1 nerf to Infantry.


(P.S: IF is essentially (on a small map of course, where nerfed range doesn't come as much into play) every unit x 1.4 (3 HP more, out of a standard 7)

I understand that Amok/Ivan wanted to make premium strategies stronger than normal ones (cash incentive), BUT, I'm slightly annoyed at how GC is noticeably weaker than IF. This isn't due to GC not being strong enough, but rather due to that HP boost. I can't think of a way change that without making the strategy (IF) lose its uniqueness.

NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. MoS is shitty on every field. It's shit expensive and it's useless.

If we bump the cost of the infantary to 120 it will make the strat more balanced on every field and on every map.STOP dodging and being biased.


OK, I'M GOING INTO JEWISH MODE.IF IVAN doesn't nerf PD people won't care about being premium for IF.

There will be no more nerfs. If you don't like this one and think it's useless, I can take it back.

Prispeval Ivan, 20.06.2011 at 14:25

There will be no more nerfs. If you don't like this one and think it's useless, I can take it back.

This was just wrong nerf, Ivan, it should be an attack nerf. I don't get it why you don't want to balance things (also counting the fact that players won't need Premium features if they already have a superior strategy that requires minimal skill). You should go see some game with PD players. It is really still way overpowered.

Hello,




I'm Vafika and you may know me from playing Aw. I'm here to tell you that PD is a OP strat and if you want to faceroll the keyboard and win, PD is the best strat for it.

STEP ONE: Insert head on the keyboard.
STEP TWO: Start rolling with your face on it.
STEP THREE: Click randomly on your mouse.
STEP FOUR: WIN.

THIS IS ONE OF OUR GREATEST PD-WHORES WINNING A WHOLE WORLD GAME:

Prispeval Aristosseur, 19.06.2011 at 14:29

The thing is they have a decent attack (and general gives them +1 in an upgrade) and massive defence. Let's leave the defence as it is despite the fact that they get 9 defence in a city for a 60 gold unit (50? with upgrade), because this strategy is about defence. Great Combinator infantry for example, get -3 attack so they can use something else to attack with, tanks.
The problems with PD is that once you get into a city, which is easy since you have max 2 stacks attacking, you're extremely hard to kill even by the most offensive strategies. The minor movement nerf is nothing, it is counterbalanced by the upgrade anyway. I wouldn't nerf the movement, since perfect defence would require to be mobile to defend at crucial cities. Iron pointed out cow's mistake; he has to think where to attack? With Perfect Defence? This is why PD is overpowered, because they can skip defence, capture an important city with a high defence unit and carry the team. Hugo is the best PD player at the moment and he has carried his team twice with PD, and that's versus us alone. I'll rephrase so you can understand: PD, Perfect Defence, carried the team, attacked everyone, was most aggressive and beat everyone else. And that's experience versus us alone. In a team game PD would be a perfect buffer zone for expensive offensive strategies to have time to get some countries and overrun the rest, but since PD requires so little money for a mediocre attack/massive defence unit, therefore it can play both roles, which makes it overpowered.
Now on the defensive part: 9 defence in a city for a 60 gold unit. Tanks cost twice as much and have less attack... GW marines cost the same +20 and have -2 attack. If there's a general in the PD city, it goes to 10 defence. Keep defence as it is, but as the strategy indicates, infantry aren't an attacking unit, therefore an attack nerf is mandatory.That should be in either -2 attack OR keep it as it is but make it cost more, 110 to make it 100 with reduction, still cheaper than offensive units and with the same awesome defence stat.

Did you even read that Ivan?
Why do you go so gangsta saying hurr if u no liek i taek bak?
Why do you care so damn little? Can you call upon your own game experience to support that nerf? No, because you are rank4 and you haven't even played competitively. Why are you so one sided? The way you worded your reply shows clearly who youl isten to and who you pay no attention to. The thing is it's not only us, but pinheiro too whose opinion you completely bypassed.

Again. I've played competitively and, yes, PD is strong in maps where action is short and momentum doesn't have time to build. IF is also like this.


I'm sorry, but you call me out as "biased", but I'm not the one who's been chain-losing coalition wars against Hugosch's team.

I think the -1 to range nerf to great Ivan, as it reduces PD's overwhelming potency in larger maps. Thanks.


(Although Lucky Bastard still sucks as far as I can tell, haha)




edit: Oh and, Aristo, if you were bit more polite and civil, the devs might be happier to listen to you.

I think we can't solve any problem on this thread. Ivan has already listened to our points and did what he tought it was right. We are only a little part of the community and we actually made the admin do something about it. You don't see devs doing that much on other games, do you?

I can't say anything about the -1 range movement and it's effects yet. It might appear to be a small detail, but in long games it makes a lot of difference, so we should try it before making any more conclusions.

Wtf is wrong you guys?- CAN'T READ THE SUGGESTIONS?

PD needs no money, buying bombers and Air transporters isn't a problem.
It's funny because Ivan doesn't really play AW so how can he measure the status of the strat's and of the gameplay?

He should be listening to us. I'm out of the forum it seems people want to remain blind and don't care. HE wants to make more people leave due to this "I don't care and let me be a troll and listen to the biased PD-Whores.".

Fine with me.

A friendly fuck you to all you PD-Friends being biased and asking for shitty NERFS.

Prispeval BASED Ironail, 20.06.2011 at 19:56

Again. I've played competitively and, yes, PD is strong in maps where action is short and momentum doesn't have time to build. IF is also like this.


I'm sorry, but you call me out as "biased", but I'm not the one who's been chain-losing coalition wars against Hugosch's team.

I think the -1 to range nerf to great Ivan, as it reduces PD's overwhelming potency in larger maps. Thanks.


(Although Lucky Bastard still sucks as far as I can tell, haha)




edit: Oh and, Aristo, if you were bit more polite and civil, the devs might be happier to listen to you.

Ironail, stop rep farming. Thank you.

PD is way overpowered, cause it does not need money, as Vafika said. It should get either a significant boost in infantry's cost or an attack nerf so it would be harder to get more clay.

Prispeval Aristosseur, 20.06.2011 at 17:29

Prispeval Aristosseur, 19.06.2011 at 14:29

snip

Can you call upon your own game experience to support that nerf? No, because you are rank4 and you haven't even played competitively. Why are you so one sided?

You have to be joking. Not only did he likely have a say in the creation of game's mechanics, but I'd be willing to bet he's tested the game privately with Amok and friends a very great deal. Just because he doesn't play so many games here doesn't mean he's inexperienced. AT ALL. He's probably played more than you... just not here.

Prispeval YOBA, 21.06.2011 at 06:53

You have to be joking. Not only did he likely have a say in the creation of game's mechanics, but I'd be willing to bet he's tested the game privately with Amok and friends a very great deal. Just because he doesn't play so many games here doesn't mean he's inexperienced. AT ALL. He's probably played more than you... just not here.

Mmm, I actually think Ivan would have a higher level if he played more. From what I know, developers usually tend not to play in their own games, they rely on "testers" (aka us, players).

Then I take it upon myselft to demonstrate how IF is borderline OP and PD OP in any map with any settings, except 3k for IF maybe. I'm sure Ryssa would be willing to show Ivan himself how IF is OP too. Yoba, you suck at the game yourself anyway

Prispeval BASED Ironail, 20.06.2011 at 19:56

I'm sorry, but you call me out as "biased", but I'm not the one who's been chain-losing coalition wars against Hugosch's team.

I think the -1 to range nerf to great Ivan, as it reduces PD's overwhelming potency in larger maps. Thanks.



edit: Oh and, Aristo, if you were bit more polite and civil, the devs might be happier to listen to you.

Ever wonder why we lost?
Larger maps. Nothing done to smaller maps.
I've been too polite and civil, until Ivan decided to call everything I said petty and trivial.
Is it a coincidence you were the one with the -1 movement nerf?

IRONAIL BEING A TROLL WITH THEIR CLAN AND IVAN NOT GIVING A SHIT.

Typical on the AW forums. Vafika says: Have a friendly fuck you to cheer up the day while you play this marvelous and unbalanced game.

Prispeval Aristosseur, 21.06.2011 at 07:43

Then I take it upon myselft to demonstrate how IF is borderline OP and PD OP in any map with any settings, except 3k for IF maybe. I'm sure Ryssa would be willing to show Ivan himself how IF is OP too. Yoba, you suck at the game yourself anyway

Maybe there is something borderline OP with IF also, but I can't see how you can nerf it without turning IF into something useless. +10% cost to units?

I also'd say that something should be done with GW marines, cause they are super cheap and it is not possible to detect them, since Sentry planes have hilarious range of detection. To cover one country like France, I need about 5(!) sentrys, which is 2000 without upgrade. Sure noone can afford such spendings.

So I guess IF, GW and PD are the most overpowered strats for now, but PD is much, much more unfair than other two.
Also, Ironail is biased, cause he is interested in his PD coalition to stay on top.

ITT: people whining instead of being pro like me.
Such life east of Poland.

I don't know what everyone is complaning about...I use PD and I am rank 1! I win a lot thanks ot it...but I think it's my skill !

Prispeval Kawaii^__^, 21.06.2011 at 11:38

I win a lot thanks ot it...but I think it's my skill !

Same problem is with Hugosch.

Protip: Kawai is Fruit.